Bert Sobanik, 51
Home Town:
Lyman, Maine

Occupation:
Home Inspector
I am currently a Home Inspector for Real Estate transactions, but had until 2004 spent thirty years in Manufacturing, especially in New Product Prototype Development. In spite of up to date skills and ... See full Bio

As Michigan goes...so goes the Nation
Where is the leadership?
Israel to attack Iran after the election?
Let's borrow and spend our way out of this mess!
Purple States does it too!.... Non Recognition of third party candidates
Just because it sucks......
Let's borrow and spend our way out of this mess!
September 27th - 1:52 pm

For years I have been making freinds and aquaintences sick with my tirades about importing goods, and bad trade policies promoted by politicians on both sides of the trough. Well........it's payback time, thirty plus years of trade deficits have left us  economically weak, broken, fragile,   ....go ahead and argue with me about it, the president himself said so.

A small but powerful group of elite CEO's and boards saw importing and "rebranding" as a way to make a quick buck. The government said "hey give me some of that" and they managed to make us totally dependent on countries like China, not only for necessary goods, but also for the money that they loan back to us to maintain a standard of living (and a military) that we no longer produce enough value to afford.

 

Here is a cute little piece for perusal and enjoyment;  all about the wisdom of free trade.

www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/economy/free-trade_chaos%3a_adios_to_u.s._manufacturing_200807019

Comments:
Bert
Millions of Jobs? come on Flandamier get real!
October 9th - 6:45 am
While I feel sorry for the Millions of jobs that would be lost in China, India, and Japan, if we were to practice truly reciprocal trade policies (get over the "Free Trade" baloney already, there is no such thing, it is just a name used to sell a bunch of disjointed, bad agreements). We need those jobs back here again.

If their was any loss of jobs in this country it would probably be among the finaglers who are importing and purveying all the crap that currently chokes our landfills. We can have retraining programs where there are real jobs at the end.

You forget that I have lost at least four jobs to out-sourcing/ off-shoring and it didn't kill me. We can stack the deck the other way and there will be a net gain in opportunities in our country.

Did you take the time to research the trade deficit? Current trade policies will never fill that huge gap, we are selling our Nation for Cute Cars, Cheap shoes, and poison toys.

and...............you apparently like it that way.
 
Flandamier
NAFTA
October 8th - 2:04 pm
I wasn't for NAFTA to begin with although I understand why we would want free-trade with Mexico and Canada. They are our neighbors and in my opinion having a good working relationship with them is key. I would rather have them working with us, then working with Russia or China. Isn't that what NAFTA was supposed to be for?

Somehow the vision of NAFTA got blurred when we extended that to other countries. Instead of NAFTA we got "World Free Trade". It was as if NAFTA was the gateway drug for allowing that to happen. It was also the reason I wasn't for it.

My question to you and everyone following this discussion is, what can we do about it? We have these agreements. Businesses are relying on it. Millions of jobs are at stake. Do we just shut it down?
Bert
Don't be confused,
October 6th - 6:38 am
Our trade deficit is in the 100's of billions of dollars every year and increasing.
What could we lose? more debt?

We started in the seventies with Japan, and our first dabblings in trade deficits.
After NAFTA (1993) and then "permanent most favored trade status for China" (also a Clinton era legacy) you see a huge, steep increase in trade deficits, from then on it was "jobs out, junk in". It would be like a card game where you went every night and won $5, but you also lost $250,000, how bad would it hurt when you stopped playing?

Only the elite who skim the profit off the current system are truly making out.
Don't be deceived, I know people who make $100K a year and think they are "elite" and vote lock step "free trade" (which you get with both parties anyway) and they are just dust under the boots of the real elite.

The words free trade are a myth, China, Japan, and Europe too all tariff, tax, and obstruct the flow of commerce from our country to protect their own economies, and people.
 
Flandamier
Confused
October 5th - 3:36 pm
"Let us start with this:

1) any item manufactured, or containing components manufactured in a place where the strict environmental standards of this country are not adhered to will not be imported here. Keep the world clean for all the worlds people.

2) any item manufactured, or containing components manufactured by people who are not protected by the strict OSHA standards that our workers enjoy, will not be imported here. No child or slave labor. No sweat shop conditions. fair wages for work done.

3) any item manufactured, or containing components manufactured by people who enjoy the considerable subsidy of government supplied health care. will be charged a tariff to make that subsidy equivalent to what it costs employers in this country who must supply their workers with health care insurance.
Our employers should not shoulder the burden that other nations do not require of employers in their nations. "


To make things easier I copied and pasted your detailed plan here.

Let me first say that I agree with you on the premise that we and our trading partners all need to be on the same playing field. The reality is that we live in a global economy. This means that our workers and buisnesses are competing with their counterparts on a global scale.

Some of our businesses and employees rely on being able to export our goods and services. If we cut off trade with those countries that don't have the same playing field as we do means less of a market to sell to, therefore less income for that business, therefore less need to make more of it and in the end - less jobs. Yes? No?
Bert
Solutions I have offered.....in detail
October 4th - 10:34 am
Flandamier, I am flattered that you are interested in my proposed solutions.
So much so that I will say that I expounded on them on Tanya's "scary economy" piece comments, go check them out.
 
Flandamier
Maybe you're right...
October 3rd - 7:04 pm
Maybe I have no idea how to solve the problem. What I do know is that if we don't keep our edge on technologies then there will be no manufacturing jobs (such as they are) here or in the future.

My suggestions in the previous posts are just that. So you disagree with them, but I didn't really hear you offer a solution save one that said "tax the imports". How does that create jobs?
Bert
Flandamier, You have no Idea
October 1st - 6:31 am
You have listened to to many campaign blurbs. I worked with cutting edge technologies in this country, SLA, and SLS, both spin-offs from University research programs. I participated in the groups for new technology users.
I watched as Japan, and later China, simply purchased the equipment, analyzed it and set about usurping the patents knowing full well that there is no recourse in court for businesses that have intellectual property stolen by these "trading partners".

If we want to make our nation manufacturing friendly enough to compete with Japan and Europe even, we would need to at least nationalize health care, as no business in either of these entities is saddled with the need to provide health care insurance. If we want to compete with China we must eliminate our hard won environmental, and labor protections, since businesses in that country are not concerned with these things.

A software license for Parametric Technologies "Pro-Engineer" in the USA is $20K or more depending on options. In China, you can buy it in the store for $25.00, all options unlocked. The story I heard is that the Chinese Government sponsored the work to defeat the security on this huge tool of mechanical and manufacturing Engineers worldwide.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I would like to propose that there would be a certain point at which you would say "no fair".

As far as taxes go, all the tax breaks go to corporations who are headquartered here, that does nothing for the manufacturing which will still be done elsewhere. As far as I am concerned these Corporations may be subject to high tax rates, but given the complexity of the tax code I am confident that most of them pay close to nothing. Let them take there headquarters overseas to where their facilities are, and just tax them for selling their junk here.
 
Flandamier
Manufacturing
October 1st - 1:44 am
What we need is a new form of manufacturing. We were the ones who lead the world in new technology that was manufactured. Unfortunately the wold has caught up to us. Now, as already stated, we have people all over the world who can do the same thing we can do at a cheaper rate. So what's the solution?

If we stop free-trade will that stop the people in the Dominican Republic from making t-shirts cheaper? Nope. Will it stop the rest of the world from buying those t-shirts? Nope.

So what do we do? We need something that nobody else has. We need new technology and new innovations. We can then mass produce that in the meantime looking to more new technology and innovations to mass produce next.

The problem here is that we want cheap products but complain when we can't live on minimum wage. You can't have it both ways unless the companies have a viable outlet to offset the costs of wages and benefits. The way to do that is to tax these businesses less so they will stay here. Make it cheaper to employ Americans and do business in American than it is for them to import or build a plant in Mexico or anywhere else in the world.
 
nancy
It's true!
September 27th - 8:08 pm
It's true! Bert has been saying this a long, long time. I wish he was wrong. I personally check labels and get really excited if I find something made in the USA. I am willing to pay more, to help support the US economy. I am unable to get a pair of shoes made in the USA except for some New Balance sneakers. Amazing that a pair of shoes can be imported all the way from China and still be affordable.Tshirts are made in Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic. Workers making these items are working long hours for low wages and little or no benefits. In the meantime, we have watched most of our textile manufacturing disappear. Next a large portion of the automotive industry dwindled away. The people that designed, made and serviced the machines and equipment next saw their livelihood fading away. The service industries in the towns where all of the workers lived leave next. A ghost nation in the making!There is a domino effect when most or all of our manufacturing becomes outsourced. What will happen if we are attacked on a large scale by a foreign entity? Will we have the resources to respond, or will we have to wait for our suppliers to provide us with what we need to defend ourselves? Scary thoughts.